Tulpa.info - metaphysics

You can just accept that something is currently uncertain or unknown.

yeah what lily says. i don't understand why instead of accepting we don't know something and science can't explain it yet, we should pretend we actually understand it (edited)

I think for most the reason why they truly believe things that aren't true are "purpose" and "the fear of death" It is evolutionarilly useful to develop the first and mitigate the second. (edited)

4:30 PM

Without spirituality I don't think the second can be fully mitigated without doing something about it and the first can only ever be have courage and make your own purpose; arbitrary though that is

4:30 PM

And I think our brains were designed to take easier paths to functionality.

I think Zen helps mitigate the second, as well as some of psychology and philosophy.

Aww, that's kind of you to say

2

4:40 PM

But yes I think even understanding that something is bad but no longer uncertain is helpful.

4:40 PM

In many ways it may be worse to not know if death is your obliteration.

4:43 PM

We humans like naming things, even bad things. I think you see this in illness too. It's better to know you have a chronic illness of the mind or body than it is to have lived in confusion about it. People often describe how it's better to know what you have so it feels like you can take steps to mitigate or live with that thing particularly, even if there's not much that can be done.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism

Anthropomorphism

Anthropomorphism is the attribution of human traits, emotions, or intentions to non-human entities. It is considered to be an innate tendency of human psychology.Personification is the related attribution of human form and characteristics to abstract concepts such as nations, emotions, and natural forces, such as seasons and weather. Both have a...

4:45 PM

Is misnamed. It's simply us seeing the universal in all things.

4:46 PM

and then relating it back to ourselves

It's perplexing to me that you would see anthropomorphism: A delusion that causes flaws in logic; makes us mistreat animals and nature; and say that it is indicative of some deeper truth - Other than the truth that we like to think of everything in human terms.

4:49 PM

The first thing you must do when training animals is let go of the idea they are human.

4:49 PM

And understand them as they understand themselves; how they think differently (edited)

oh, sure, but that's implicit. You can't go projecting your experience onto others and expect that to be relevant or meaningful to them.

4:50 PM

unless they're, like, really similar somehow

4:57 PM

Mirrors are a good example. Many animals do not seem to recognize themselves in them; at all.

That little prance that cat does is amazing

heeheehee total mind-break XD

Zen

Mirrors are a good example. Many animals do not seem to recognize themselves in them; at all.

Okay but can you stop misusing semicolons

5:44 PM

You're otherwise too eloquent to keep doing this on a regular basis (edited)

Zen

It's perplexing to me that you would see anthropomorphism: A delusion that causes flaws in logic; makes us mistreat animals and nature; and say that it is indicative of some deeper truth - Other than the truth that we like to think of everything in human terms.

Here, too

;wat?

6:23 PM

I don;t know what you could possibly mean.

I've done some experiments in this direction with entertaining results. Basically what I do is hold the form of plants/nature/the elements and so on, then try and talk with them like creating a tulpa but more directed toward my unconscious and not a sentient being

6:33 PM

basically its like I create a proto-tulpa and exchange only a few sentences before it becomes sentient. The results are always entertaining and surprising. The grass "told" me if I ate it I would become a phoenix, the ocean told me I need to wash my feet (I saw an image of a girl hovering over the waves, just standing there) I had a longer conversation where the grass became a snake and told me about the leviathan

6:33 PM

but I'm aware it's a fine line between actual sentience, confirmation bias and delusion

6:36 PM

I started asking about magic and how to manifest stuff and it would say things like "you don't have the hands and feet for it" and "don't inquire of it again"

6:39 PM

but to use the unconscious as a mirror to get accurate insights about the world and what to do, while manifesting your intended results indirectly seems like a practice it enjoyed explaining and condoning. "The ice is not out of your hands. It is out of your hands and feet. Let the ice consume you, then, all things being one, let the ice form a crystal. Then, blow the ice to the wind, and form a bubble. I know that sounds hard, but it will take practice." its describing how to channel your emotions into action (edited)

My experience with communicating with a being projected from my unconscious ideas alone is that indeed it's always both interesting and insightful. We as humans think in terms of narrative and story, and I kind of think that the unconscious when given free reign, is naturally excellent at telling them in symbolic ways that we really vibe with. Often those things don't vibe with many others though, because they're specifically rich in personal symbolism. In many ways I think metaphors and symbols come more naturally to us than spoken language itself. If we couldn't speak, our unconscious would likely still be doing the same things with raw thought about these things rather than words. (edited)

mmm

well said seems like its basically art in verbal form if given free reign

Zen

My experience with communicating with a being projected from my unconscious ideas alone is that indeed it's always both interesting and insightful. We as humans think in terms of narrative and story, and I kind of think that the unconscious when given free reign, is naturally excellent at telling them in symbolic ways that we really vibe with. Often those things don't vibe with many others though, because they're specifically rich in personal symbolism. In many ways I think metaphors and symbols come more naturally to us than spoken language itself. If we couldn't speak, our unconscious would likely still be doing the same things with raw thought about these things rather than words. (edited)

Maybe the problem is that "meaning" is a meaningless concept. Like, we invented a silly idea and then some time went "hey this idea doesn't actually mean anything" or doesn't describe anything. And then we thought that said something about the universe when obviously it only says something about us.

@Lula! | 👻 - jump owo why is everything meaningless, would you say? that sounds kind of austere, and I kind of like the meaning that i've come to know, here and there

The only reason we invented meaning is to say it's meaningless.

I see both as valid paradoxically. Meaning is logically nonsensical. But our brains are meaning engines. They're intended to derive meaning and to follow them. Saying meaning is meaningless is like saying love is meaningless: Yes. And? And so is all beauty. So is everything you've ever derived joy from - from the most base to the most life-changing. It doesn't change that these are the things our brains live for. There might be a time when our species can change our brain chemistry so that we can expand and alter what makes us feel that level of "meaning" for things that are less arbitrary but until then it's these abstract, evolved concepts that we have no choice to pursue. Or we will be unhappy. Again, if there's one truth I think the stoics got unequivocally right, it's that we cannot oppose our natures without suffering. At least without having the keys to changing them. (edited)

Of course. I was just being a smartass with my quote.

Naturally. I am that way too.

Lula! | 👻

Maybe the problem is that "meaning" is a meaningless concept. Like, we invented a silly idea and then some time went "hey this idea doesn't actually mean anything" or doesn't describe anything. And then we thought that said something about the universe when obviously it only says something about us.

I'd have to agree with this. From my observations there's no possible way to tell whether your unconscious is merely saying what could be or whether its saying what actually is

1:27 AM

it seems like the unconscious links all possible universes together and for that reason will return things not based on this reality. There is no "reality" to it because it is beyond space and time. Being beyond time means there is no "existence" or "non existence" (edited)

1:29 AM

there's no way to tell whether I'm not just a vegetable in another universe while I'm in a state of psychosis or eternal dream and to the unconscious the denial of the idea is meaningless because it links all things together anyways

1:31 AM

I think with that it might be truly possible to believe your way into other universes where the laws of nature are different and I'm still experimenting with the idea but my dreams and unconscious seem to be very supportive

1:32 AM

it might be possible that there is no actual universe, and everyone besides yourself is just a part of yourself in a dream of some other entity, and we're all waiting to "wake up" and realize we can change reality as we please

1:34 AM

like this dream I've been having a lot https://discord.com/channels/431579755037589505/431591449348276224/865706623548653588

How would you find out, in a way that isn't self-fulfilling? Nihilism is a bitch like that.

ask the universe for a sign while giving myself psychosis then if I transcend that answers it

1:37 AM

keep giving myself psychosis until I get faith that moves mountains and transcend

Doesn't that just prove that your mind wants the answers?

yeah it does

1:40 AM

a few minutes lateere

1:41 AM

become neo from the matrix

Welp if you gain the power of CHIM and become Vivec do let me know, so I can walk that path myself.

1

hydrix95

ask the universe for a sign while giving myself psychosis then if I transcend that answers it

This is the spiritual equivalent of african tribes sending their teens into the wild and they have to survive and kill a lion with their bare hands or somethin.

2:20 AM

You just take a buncha salvia and DMT and if you manage to not end up in a psych ward by the end of the week you've made it.

Stat

You just take a buncha salvia and DMT and if you manage to not end up in a psych ward by the end of the week you've made it.

I'd rather burn out than fade away

2:30 AM

yaya be like "2021 life goals": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUhOnX8qt3I

teamfortress

Meet the Pyro

You'd rather burn alive in a car crash than die peacefully in your sleep?

2:30 AM

ok got it.

2:30 AM

oh crap people on a tulpa forum are calling me crazy

2:33 AM

You 're crazy. Also: I want to learn necromancy if it exists. Come back with the knowledge as a lich or something or I will be personally disappointed.

I can confirm yaya is definitely crazy

1

I must come back with superpowers and fulfill the prophesy or else I will live in exile as a failed wizard

2:42 AM

peace

I made a paper spinner on a nail, and while my imposition is definitely good enough to make it opaquely spin or be blocked out completely I still technically can't answer the question because to check my progress I have to undo the imposition (edited)

3:35 AM

its a paradox

but I have to admit that its a dead end if others say it doesn't move even when I'm observing that it is. I could record a video but that would be the same paradox. The thing is if I slip into psychosis permanently and then die one still couldn't say it was a false reality, because to me it was a reality down to the end and possibly into the afterlife

3:47 AM

I'll keep trying just so I can prove telekinesis is impossible though

I should invite you to that one cryptocurrency server I'm on that has a #mystery channel in which a guy posts crazy theories about telepaths and hearing voices and destroying the moon

3:53 AM

It has to be comedic, but he's been posting in that channel for years

3:53 AM

It's so good

yeah, I guess I'm just taking advantage of my new imposition powers to answer some questions I've been wondering for a long time

the "yeah," makes it sound as if you responded to me

I mean I'm not so much comparable because I'm actually testing things with powers that I already do have though

3:57 AM

if that's what you mean

I just meant that guy sounds a lot like you

it seems like psychosis is only half of something, and I very much intend to keep checking the intersections with actual reality if possible, mostly out of boredom I guess

3:59 AM

I don't really want attention like that guy

I'm just trying to be mean btw lol and I actually think you would enjoy his shit, it's so bizarre

4:00 AM

Also I think that channel, on a server with like 60 or 70 channels, is the only attention he gets, and nobody else ever really posts in there or acknowledges him

4:00 AM

That's the other part that blows my mind

yeah I probably would, just because I can see stuff like that for being rooted in symbolism but he thinks its non-symbolism

4:00 AM

and I enjoy that

He recently started making videos, I linked some of them in #lotpw

I'll check it out

insightful to the human mind

4:02 AM

like I said there's no way to know if your feelings are what could be or what actually is, that's what lead me down this rabbit hole in the first place

4:02 AM

I wanted to see if there was any intersection with the real world, and this is #metaphysics which deals in that almost exclusively (edited)

4:04 AM

no way to understand reality without insanity i guess

Zen

I see both as valid paradoxically. Meaning is logically nonsensical. But our brains are meaning engines. They're intended to derive meaning and to follow them. Saying meaning is meaningless is like saying love is meaningless: Yes. And? And so is all beauty. So is everything you've ever derived joy from - from the most base to the most life-changing. It doesn't change that these are the things our brains live for. There might be a time when our species can change our brain chemistry so that we can expand and alter what makes us feel that level of "meaning" for things that are less arbitrary but until then it's these abstract, evolved concepts that we have no choice to pursue. Or we will be unhappy. Again, if there's one truth I think the stoics got unequivocally right, it's that we cannot oppose our natures without suffering. At least without having the keys to changing them. (edited)

Yeah I definitely agree a lot. I still like meaning, and definitely those other things!

yaya i'm getting worried about you you mentioning psychosis multiple times makes me feel you also realise there is something not right going on the more you will involve yourself in this, the harder it will be to get out of it i hope you are ok

yes my imposition is getting good enough that I have to start delving into psychosis to get it to work (no drugs though), and by that I mean I manually put myself in that state by believing to get it indistinguishable from reality, however it can be difficult to control 100% of the time and I'm slow testing if its possible without the side-effects of automatic hallucination

11:43 AM

I appreciate your concern and I regret trying all those ideas of overlap with actual reality but up until now I had a pretty materialistic model of things